West Common racecourse meeting offers no answers on future plans
LACK of detail on proposals to bring back racing to Lincoln's West Common has left council advisers with serious doubts.
The Lincoln Racecourse Regeneration Company, which wants to build a racecourse on the city's West Common, met with the Commons Advisory Panel at City Hall last night.
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Lincoln Racecourse Regeneration Company is planning on bringing back horse racing to the West Common in Lincoln.
Spokesman for the company Karen Rastall was there to answer questions put forward by the panel.
But as reported in the Echo, when the planned regeneration project was announced, residents, councillors and community groups were flummoxed at the lack of basic detail, including where the racecourse would go and what impact it would have environmentally and in terms of traffic.
That sentiment was again felt at last night's meeting after many of the questions put to Mrs Rastall went unanswered. She explained they could not be resolved until traffic and environmental surveys were carried out.
Panel member Ian Durrant said: "How on earth is this panel supposed to make a decision when you have not told us what you are going to do, how it's going to be done and what damage there might be to the common?
"There's no information except you want a decision on whether the racecourse should go ahead."
The regeneration company has asked for a "heads of term lease" from the council for 12 months before it goes about putting a masterplan together.
But questions were raised as to why the lease, which is an initial stage in leasing business premises, was required.
Mrs Rastall, who is a solicitor and magistrate in the area, said it would cost the investors £70,000 to £100,000 to put the plan together.
On answering why the company would not go ahead with the masterplan without the lease, she replied: "Political will.
"What we want is to be able to work up a regeneration project that will be fairly debated and not political."
The meeting was attended by dozens of members of the public who hissed and booed the project throughout the debate, which went on for nearly three hours.
George Wolfenden, a member of the West End Residents' Association, who sits on the panel, said: "I do not think you have any idea at all what this common is. There are football pitches, a golf course, bowling greens and a cricket ground.
"It's a very important part of the social fabric."
Mrs Raskill was keen to point out the racecourse build and its running would be at no cost to taxpayers.
But committee member Sally Davies asked whether that included policing on race days.
Carholme Ward councillor and panel member Neil Murray proposed a motion to urge the city council's executive to reject the proposals.
But it was deferred until the next advisory panel meeting on July 26 to give the panel time to make some key points to put to the executive.
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by Ann, Lincoln
Saturday, July 17 2010, 3:42PM
“Now we've cleared up that everyone is keen to see this issue explored can we please explore it?!
Re: Can a new small temporary racecourse succeed in the UK in 2010/11? There are two firm examples: Great Leigh, Essex (in administration) and Ffos Las, Wales (struggling on 30 days plus), that demonstrate how difficult it is to successfully run racing.
Another question: What does the British Horseracing Association require of a racecourse before it will grant a license? To be frank is there actually enough physical space to set up racing on West Common?
Thoughtful answers please -”
by United we stand, Lincoln
Friday, July 16 2010, 8:00PM
“Venessa, who knows if you were the person I was referring too. Judging by your grammar and use of shouting language (text in capitals), i suspect you are. Please enlighten me as to what you mean by "I do not have a sour attitude but a balanced one. The sourness comes from those who do like balance!" - eh? so therefore you do have a sour attitude? This makes no sense at all. Nevertheless, it is no good in fighting with everybody zapping resources and trying to create sides. As i have said before we are all here for one common goal and that is to protect the common. I agree with you (on one thing at least, but its a start!) that we need to hear the full facts from the LRRC and until then reserve some judgement, but I do not hold it against those who are so passionate about the common that even the suggestion of a racecourse sends them into a spin in their effort to protect what we have.”
by Ann, Lincoln
Friday, July 16 2010, 11:32AM
“Can a new small temporary racecourse succeed in the UK in 2010/11? Answers please -”
by Marguerite Howells, Lincoln
Friday, July 16 2010, 10:17AM
“I attended the Commons Advisory Panel,along with 50+ members of the public and many others turned away.There was total rejection of the plans by the panel, which represents many different Commons users.I am certain that this woolly plan, totally lacking in detail and full of errors, is the first step of a backdoor plan to bring other development to West Common, a rare area of natural habitat near the centre of a city,a 'critical natural asset' with many rare plants and wildlife.. Our new MP is a director of the company!He has been lobbying for this for years. The next meeting of the Commons Advisory Panel is Monday 26 July at City Hall.The panel make their recommendations to the Executive-only 8 people!-in August, when many people are away.Wake up Commons lovers-before it is too late!”
by Ann, Lincoln
Friday, July 16 2010, 9:47AM
“This debate is so important ¿ people are passionate - but this needs to be about the facts.
Financially there are significant examples that demonstrate that it¿s difficult to make a profit out of racing. Nothing in the LRRC proposal leads a person reading it to understand how the figures add up.
Location The LRRC proposal talks of bringing racing back to Carholme Race Course, barely mentioning West Common, suggesting to those who don¿t know Lincoln that the course still exists and that all is required is a finishing post.
On one hand the LRRC having been looking at this for 3 years on the other they need more time to look at transport and environmental issues. For professional people to have put together a 90 page document that contains so little factual information demonstrates a level of contempt.”
by Vennessa, Lincoln
Friday, July 16 2010, 8:27AM
“United we stand, Lincoln
My attention was brought to this, this morning.
By '(aka Venessa)' and being close to my name i have been told you mean myself.
Sorry to disapoint but you are again pointing the finger at the wrong person.
I think my comment was the second one on here - my one and only comment!!!
Please point your finger at the correct person and not someone who is keeping a balanced view for the members of her group and the good of the commons, George, John or Sally!!!!
I am trying to get the correct information for my group so that it can be discussed thoroughly - good and bad!!!
I am mearly the spokesperson for my group, putting forward ALL views for those for and against. It would be wrong of me to go to the advisery and only say what i wish to say from my own personal point of view ignoring my members.
Just for the record i also have protected the commons for a number of years - all three of them!!!
By pull together do you mean scream and shout we don't want it when we have no idea what you are against in reality just what has been dreamed up on the main?
I was on the panel and went for facts, none were given.
I am willing to listen to the proposals and discuss them apropriatly as an adult.
I am also open to listen to the people of Lincoln and what they want.
I do not have a sour attitude but a balanced one. The sourness comes from those who do like balance!
I have noted concerns of West common users, all of which will be put forward should this be discussed again.
If it is time to pull together, yes pull together and listen to all views - for and against, put those views forward and get answers for all. That is pulling together.
If you don't want racing give sound reasons on what is proposed.
If you want racing give sound reasons.
It then can be discussed what would work and what would not and come to a balanced answer.”
by enochthered, lincoln
Friday, July 16 2010, 12:01AM
“I attended the meeting yesterday evening and was lucky enough to get into the room where it was taking place - quite a few members of the public had
to be turned away.
The plan presented by the LRRC, the company wanting to bring Racing to the
West Common, was so light on substance that you'd need a paper-weight to keep it on your desk. Time after time, in response to very basic questions from members of the committee, regarding for example where exactly on the Common the racecourse would be, Karen Rastall the LRRC's main representative, simply answered that information was not yet available. She gave other answers that were at odds with information in her company's own published proposals. All in all hers was a bewildering and ill informed performance, which prompted one of the councillors present to suggest that this was the worst proposal he'd seen presented in over twenty years.
What was very clear was that the Council and the people of Lincoln were
being asked to commit support to a scheme which lacked any clear business case or evidence that any of the major ecological or infrastructure issues arising from the project had been considered.
What wasn't clear was why Ms Rastall's company required a lease on the
common, in the first place, when they claim that all they wish to do at this stage is to carry out a feasibilty study.
What is also of great concern is the revelation that whatever the
recommendation of the Commons Advisory Panel, or the feelings of local
people, it may well be the Lincoln Council Executive, alone, not the full Council who will have the right to decide on whether the scheme goes forward from here, denying the residents of the city a voice in the debate (just as they
were required to sit in mute - if decidedly angry - silence at yesterday's
meeting).
This seemingly ill conceived scheme should be judged on its own (lack of) merit. Karl McCartney's continued position as a director of the racecourse company certainly muddies the waters, but it would be a mistake to make this a partisan political issue or to become side-tracked into party politics: this is a badly prepared plan by a private company, aimed at exploiting an arcane and outdated clause in the Lincoln Commons Act, and the perfectly natural feelings of nostalgia for racing which many in Lincoln harbour, to ruthlessly drive forward the interests of a few (investors) at the expense of the many (citizens).
The plan should fail on account of its demonstrable inadequacies, but politics and business being what they are, sadly we can't rely on this, so anyone who feels strongly about their rights to walk on common land and who believes that quite enough of this and other cities is already in the hands of private business had better get busy opposing this scheme.”
by United we stand, Lincoln
Thursday, July 15 2010, 11:55PM
“Common Lover - the group isn't biased at all apart from the fact that they have protected the commons by advising the council now for a number of years. I think it is your bitter attitude that sours such communities pulling together for the greater cause. It is time to pull together not pull apart Common Lover (aka Venessa)”
by Gedge, Bassingham
Thursday, July 15 2010, 11:21PM
“John, Lincoln
No you are right party politics will always play a part in how council members vote on issues to a greater or lesser extent. But the proposers of the race course chose to make it a major issue by including Karl McCartney.
However I would argue that the reporting of the meeting didn't seem to raise this (otherwise they would have been mentioing more the role of Lincoln's MP) and i personally didn't know Neil Murray's affiliation to the Labour Party till Emma pointed it out. What comes across from those who attended the meeting and the Echo's reported is that the proposal is extremely lacking and ill prepared.
I don't have an issue with racing coming back to Lincoln, but cannot see how it is practically going to happen from what they are offering.”
by Fred, Lincoln
Thursday, July 15 2010, 8:59PM
“Some good points people have made, especially by Ann.
I think for people who haven't read into this much, it is very easy to simply critisize the people objecting to the new racecourse plans.
In my opinion however, there are signs that there could well be a hidden agenda going on. I urge all you common lovers to keep a sharp eye on what their real intentions are, with regards to the use of the common.
Otherwise it may be the 'beginning of the end' of the commons as we know it.”