“Anyone NOT see how this is going to go?”

“Yes sir chasm....but better to debate it than let it fester and explode onto the streets again...”

“Done to death.”

“And this is going to prevent that, is it, EASTLEIGH33?”

“Probanly not m8....because the people who need to listen dont and wont!”

“I'll fetch the ironing

"I know exactly where this is going to go. More sarcastic answers from the likes of Sir_Chasm & co, who only ever slate every answer without making a relavent comment."”

“This Labour/Tory/Lib-Dem coalition have never been honest about immigration and never will because it's not conducive with votes!
http://tinyurl.com/c5fch56”

“Hat off for putting your name to your view. Wrong as they are”

“It is quit obvious that people from other EU countries are taking jobs from British born citizens, would have to be a fool not to realise that. Whilst there are a small number of people who do not want to work or will work, the vast majority do want to work but are loosing out to foreign works - we did not need an 'expert' to tells this. Every other country in Europe, in particular France and Germany, protects their own, but England seem more interested in protecting the interest of further a field! We are the laughing stock of Europe because we are a soft touch! We give out so many hand outs including medical services that no one has paid into, that is why our national health is in such a mess thus the elderly are woefully under funded and failed by our society. What has gone wrong with this country?”

“That's a new one.

"We give out so many hand outs including medical services that no one has paid into, that is why our national health is in such a mess thus the elderly are woefully under funded and failed by our society"

Which services do we give out to people that we do not get money for? In what way is the NHS a mess? How are the Elderly "under funded"? Cheers”

“This country has always helped other countries waifs and strays,putting them before it's own occupants,so worried what the rest of the world are thinking about them,spineless!”

“It will all work out in the end.... Keep smiling :)”

“I find people from other EU countries less of a problem than the mean tight fisted employers who use workers from EU countries for cheap labour which is keeping wages at a low level in this country.If you want someone to blame don't blame people from the EU countries look no further than greedy employers.”

“Sorry but the cheap labour argument just doesn't stand up to scrutiny, the pay rates are going to be the same whether it's a Pole or a Brit, if someone has examples where this is not the case then report it, it is illegal. The real issue is that the migrants are just more employable, they have taken ownership of their futures by not grudgingly sitting on their backsides waiting for someone else to train them & gift them a job.”

“I think Migration Watch need to stop making sloppy, unsupported claims.

Firstly, if you're going to make a claim like that, at the very least, you need to publish the age range of East European migrants, secondly you have to balance that with the age ranges of all the other nationalities entering the country during the same period, thirdly, you need to further balance it with details of all immigrants who left the country and their age range for the same period. You also need to break down how many skilled/unskilled workers entered/left, how many people were of age/under age.

What you get then is s shot at a debate that is a little more intelligent than simply having to listen to morons banging on about 'the Polish nicking our jobs'.

Here's a checkable fact for you from the Office of National Statistics which it took me two minutes to find

Total Number of Polish living in Britain 532,000
Total Number of Indian, Pakistani, Irish, German, South African, Bangladeshi, American, Nigerian, Jamaican and Zimbabwean (the rest of the 'top 10') 2,851,000

Who exactly is it we're worried about 'taking our jobs'?

Putting that further in perspective, the total of the top 10 immigrant groups expressed as a percentage in relation to the total population of the UK is just over 6%. So, all you 'foreigners nicking all our jobs' people, you're giving 6% of the population a pretty hard time for no real reason. Before you come onto a public forum, look up some facts and increase you knowledge, don't just display your ignorance.

(These figures are based on total people in UK and make no provision for age. What I'm saying is, the actual number of people working out of the figures collected will be less but I only intend to illustrate that saying that East Europeans are nicking all the jobs for the yoof is highly unlikely)”

“Home rule for England.
Get rid of the British control freaks now.”

“I find it interesting that one of the findings from the report, crime has gone down with migration as migrants are less likely to offend, is missing. That flies fully in the face of people who read a few names in the paper and conclude immigrants commit more crime than non immigrants proportionally. They would also much rather focus on the one area they are worse which is drink driving. Why ignore other bits of crimes?

The detail that migrants require less health care and are net contributers to the country rather than a drain is missed completely as well. Also that they are most likely to feel British, use public transport, car share and all the things we know are good for the country but don't really fancy doing. Basically being all round good eggs in the main, but we wouldn't want to talk about that now would we? Which makes me think, if we are ignoring the majority of the facts and homing in or certain elements, could it be that people are slightly biased towards disliking someone from another country and then picking and chosing the facts to support this? But obviously we are not xenophobic, just saying.”

“Agree wholeheartedly Ricky (If your name actually is 'rubber' I apologise!)

This kind of selective reporting and comment is something I am seeing more and more and quite frankly it's an embarrassment. What is also embarrassing (and shocking) is the amount of people I encounter daily who are quite happy to keep this disgusting attitude alive and well by spouting off untruths and falsehoods against immigrants.

If we look at 'Migrationwatch' again for a second, they're remit seems to be that we need to cap immigration significantly to stop the UK population hitting 70 million in 16 years. This makes no mention of that fact that the birth/death rate in the UK will take us beyond that figure all by itself without any help from immigration. Is anybody likely to stand up and suggest a cap on the amount of children we can have? I highly doubt that. Perhaps they should.
Personally, I see somebody who takes the decision to have in excess of three children a much more draining influence on our resources than a Polish person who comes here, registers for work and tax and goes about his/her business in a law abiding and socially conscious manner.

(To anyone who is interested here are the figures which can be obtained from the Office for National Statistics. Figures are at 2010 levels and don't compensate for fluctuation up or down. Of course, if you're not interested, keep blaming immigrants for the mess we're in. That makes perfect sense)

70 million – 62.3 million (projected population minus current population) = 7.7 million (The increase required to take the population up to 70 million in 16 years- 481,250 per year)

493242 x 7 = 3,452,694 (UK yearly mortality rate not allowing for fluctuation up or down)

807,300 live births in 2010 (multiply that by 16 gives you 12,916,800)

12,916,800 - 3,452,694 = 9,464,103
which would take the UK population to 71,764,103.”

“As an aside. Exactly why is 70m a problem? I hear the bursting at the seems point etc, but a greater population does not necessairly mean everything is bad. Germany get by, all be it with a bigger land mass, but then so does Japan. More people could mean more prosperity. The population going up so misery is very simplistic. We just need greater investment in infrastructure, which perish the thought might mean more jobs in creating it. More people generate more wealth.

Anyways, that is to drift away from the point. I almost feel that immigrant, asylum seeker, and foreigner are dirty words because they are only used in a negative context. When was the last time you heard "more immigrants means less crime"? Which factually, it does.”

“'They're' instead of 'their'

I'll have the grammar police round in a minute.”

“"They would also much rather focus on the one area they are worse which is drink driving. Why ignore other bits of crimes?"

Like selling illegal fags and booze for example?

http://tinyurl.com/7pvaqlc”

“That's one example, although your story doesn't say immigrants do it more than any other group so is that relevant?

Hurts to read it but crime has gone down with migration as migrants are less likely to offend.”

“"That's one example, although your story doesn't say immigrants do it more than any other group so is that relevant?"

Firstly, it isn't MY story. But if it is to be believed then at the very least, it's factually correct to say that 100% of the shops in Lincoln which had their alcohol licences revoked for selling counterfeit alcohol and cigarettes were run/owned by migrants. Anecdotal and a very small sample I agree, but it wouldn't be too huge a leap to draw an inference.

"Hurts to read it but crime has gone down with migration as migrants are less likely to offend"

It doesn't hurt me at all to read facts and I'm not seeking an argument, but can you point me to the report and more specifically, where it says this please? I would be interested to read it.”

“Cameron, Clegg, Miliband and the rest of Wesminster need to go to school for Maths again. The other day a national report in the newspapers stated there are 450,000 vacancys the day before Westminster said the UK has around 3 million out of work, so in plain English that means two and a half million have not a chance of a job. So why import more jobless at the expense of the taxpayers.”

“As requested;

"The report from the Home Office-appointed migration advisory committee, however, makes clear that there has been no increase in violent crime levels as a result of recent migration, and the influx of foreign skilled workers may actually have contributed to falling crime levels as they are less likely to commit burglary and other property crime."

http://tinyurl.com/6sdj92n

"This study investigated the relationship between immigration and individual
supply of property crime in England and Wales. Although there is a public
perception that immigrants are more involved in criminal activities, both the
theoretical, and the empirical results of this paper lead to other conclusions."

http://tinyurl.com/7fdn54y”

“With the greatest of respect Ricky, if you are going to rail against people who are selective with their facts and figures in an attempt to make a case against immigrants and immigration, then you need to be careful not to do exactly the same thing in seeking to make a case in favour.

What the Guardian article says is that there has been no INCREASE in VIOLENT CRIME levels as a result of recent migration and that the influx of foreign SKILLED workers MAY have contributed to falling property crime levels. Furthermore, although it isn't entirely clear to me from the report, I believe they are referring to non-EU immigration only.

The report in your other link states that "the likelihood for an immigrant to commit PROPERTY CRIME is slightly lower than natives', but this difference is statistically insignificant" and further that "studying the relationship between immigration and CRIME AGAINST THE PERSON we reach at (sic) the same conclusion, that immigrants are slightly less involved in crime".

None of the detail in either report is the same as saying (as you have) that "crime has gone down with migration as migrants are less likely to offend" or that "the one area they are worse (at) is drink driving".

As Jonathan has rightly said elsewhere, both those who don't see immigration as a problem and those who do tend to zero in on the extracts of reports that fit their particular viewpoint and lend extra weight to it. Making sweeping and unsubstantiated statements in favour is every bit as disingenuous as making them against.”

“I think it is less of a leap to say "crime has gone down with migration as migrants are less likely to offend" from "the influx of foreign skilled workers may actually have contributed to falling crime levels" is less than that of getting one story for Lincoln and applying it to a country.

Jonathan has a reasonable point on that but on the balance of things I have seen articles that are meant to be impartial and all you see is "immigration costs British jobs" and not the other things that may happen. In addition the lump of labour fallacy means there are not a set amount of jobs to be had. I will stick with Stuart on this one thanks Freedom.”

“"Anyone NOT see how this is going to go"

The first post on here. I'll be honest I didn't expect it to go this way where the majority of the guff seems to be pro-migration.”

“The majority might be pro-migration. The facts seem to be in their favour. I would still not want to be a migrant worker contributing to the Lincolnshire economy in the face of received public opinion.”

“Just as a final point of order Ricky, it would only be possible for crime to have gone down as a result of migration if the measurement used were crimes committed per head of population.”

“Your car is German. Your vodka is Russian. Your pizza is Italian. Your kebab is Turkish. Your democracy is Greek. Your coffee is Brazilian. Your movies are American. Your tea is Tamil. Your shirt is Indian. Your oil is Saudi Arabian. Your electronics are Chinese. Your numbers are Arabic, your letters Latin. And you complain that your neighbor is an immigrant? Pull yourself together!
IA”

“Well worth resurrecting a month-old story for. Thanks.”